Tribe Podcast Transcripts: Dr. Joanna Martin -Starting up without burning out

Tribe Podcast Transcripts: Dr. Joanna Martin -Starting up without burning out

Please enjoy this transcript of my interview with Dr. Joanna Martin (@drajoannamartin). She is a renowned visionary, coach, and catalyst; whose message and work have directly impacted over 70,000 people on 4 different continents.

She is currently leading over 26,000 professionals at various stages of growth to increase their impact and influence through her three organizations: One of many,  Shift Speaker Training, and EMPRESS: the global collective for entrepreneurial women.


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Miko Santos [00:02:06] Morning. Hello, Humanista, Another episode again of the Tribe Podcast for this episode. Please welcome Dr. Joanna Martin. Welcome to the show.

Dr. Jo Martin [00:02:20] Thank you so much for having me. I’m really looking forward to today.

Miko Santos [00:02:24] Let’s start by asking you about this quote that I see on your website “because alone we can only do so much, but together we have the capacity to accomplish so much more”. Can you elaborate on this?

Dr. Jo Martin [00:02:42] Yeah, for sure. I think I think what I’m getting at here is the point that we live in a cultural paradigm that celebrates the pursuit of the individual. You know, we make heroes of sportspeople, of entrepreneurs, of politicians. And we, whoever it is, we always look to the individual and we very, very rarely take the time to recognize that any major achievement is actually an effort of many individuals working together towards a common vision, towards a common mission. And I think because our culture tends to celebrate and so not every culture, but certainly Australian culture, American culture, U.K. culture, where I live now, you know, we celebrate individuals. We overlook one of the most critical pieces to the success of anything. And that is really that achievement of any ambition, achievement of any vision. Bringing anything, you know, from the unseen into the scene requires a group effort. It’s always many individuals. And I think for women especially, we need to lean into working with others, with others, with them, through others for the achievement of our own personal visions and to create change in the world.

Miko Santos [00:04:04] So before we go into one of many. So you founded this community of women. Can you tell me about you? I see you’ve been you were born in Australia and educated in Australia. Can you tell us a bit more?

Dr. Jo Martin [00:04:25] Yeah, sure. So, yes, I’m an Aussie girl. I was from Tasmania, a little country town in Tasmania, and I. I started my working life as a medical doctor. So I graduated from the University of Tasmania and was a medical doctor there for a while. And once I graduated,, I recognized that whilst I was making a difference as a doctor, I wasn’t really making my difference. I felt that there was a lot more that I could contribute to the world in a meaningful way. And I had always had a dream to be an actor. So I left medicine and went to drama school. I headed up to Sydney and I was really blessed to earn a place at the Actors Center Australia in Surry Hills. Dean Kerry is the head of that place there and he’s an awesome organization.

[00:05:16]  Where not only did I have great fun and learn some amazing craft, but importantly for me, I discovered my vocation, which because of the nature of that school, they had a subject there called Life Coaching, and I didn’t even know what that was. But as we started to explore these principles, I thought, wow, there are names and terms for something which I’ve kind of been doing naturally ever since I was a kid. You know, I think I’ve just naturally always been a coach. So it was there that I first discovered coaching and I then shifted into coaching and started my own little coaching business in Sydney back in 2003, which grew very, very quickly.

[00:06:18] And before long, I was headhunted by or invited by the organization that trained me to be their head of research and training for some time. And I was gallivanting all around the world leading audiences of up to about 3000 at a time, doing amazing personal development seminars, and so forth. And then not long after that, my husband and I founded our own business, which was teaching speakers at that time. So we’re no strangers to start-up businesses. We’ve done it several times ourselves. I’ve started my coaching practice and pretty much started up again with the speaker training business.

[00:06:51] I then started one of many six years ago, which is my real purpose business, you know, supporting women to handle the daily juggle so they can really make the impact they feel called to make in the world. And I’ve started up a business mastermind called Empress. Which I did to be fair, my business partner and I, we put that on hold a year ago when the juggle of kids and we each had another business we thought is too much. So we’ve put it on hold with a longing to go back to it at some point. But going from start-up and getting things going is something I know very, very well.

Miko Santos [00:07:26] So you’re saying you’re a qualified medical doctor and also a trained actor as well. Tell me, what took you from there to be a successful entrepreneur?

Dr. Jo Martin [00:07:36] I guess so. There are many things that fit into it. I think the first thing was I have always been someone who didn’t want to settle for anything that felt less than bang on my calling, you know. So I think, you know, we all have a purpose in life. And I think the more we step into it, the more we say yes to that, the more it is revealed to us. And so for me, you know, I knew medicine wasn’t right. And the only other thing I had to compare it to was acting. So I went and I did acting. And it was there that I discovered coaching. And so I started in that field and now growing in this industry, I’ve kind of got to the point where through various incarnations, one of which was our speaker training business, which we took we took that. I mean, that grew really quickly, right. We took it from zero to seven figures in revenue in a 12 month period of time.

[00:08:26] And it was awesome and needed and fabulous. And at the time, it serves such a great purpose in the world. But after having done it for some time, I knew, hang on, this is still not quite it for me. And I don’t know what the ingredients to me to becoming a successful entrepreneur, but I think it is just this lifelong pursuit of two things. Number one, what is my next contribution? How can I be of service in the world? That’s been a theme. I guess that’s always fascinated me. What can I do to serve? And then the other piece is whenever I don’t know how to do anything, I invest. I invest in education, I invest in a coach. I invest in mentoring my you know, between my husband and I would probably be spent, God knows, a quarter of a million or more on mastermind’s and mentoring over the put more than that probably by now to learn what you need to learn to be able to be great at it. And I guess just a dogged persistence to stick with something until it works.

Miko Santos [00:09:28]  I have read that you are on a mission to unleash the ball grassroots leadership of one million women internationally. That is a huge ambition and I’m interested to know where that started.

Dr. Jo Martin [00:10:06] Do you know it started when I had just had my son? So seven years ago he was tiny. He was about six weeks old and I remember vividly I was sitting in a darkened room breastfeeding him. And you have this tiny little baby who was, you know, perfect in every way and hadn’t yet discovered this huge, scary, and highly wrong world that we live in so many ways. There’s so much not working about the world. And I don’t think I really saw it until I had kids until I had James. How much of a problem that was? You know, when you see the next generation come in and you go, holy shit, look at this place. And I remember reflecting at that time on a quote from the Dalai Lama who said at the Vancouver Peace Summit back in 2009 that the world will be saved by the Western woman. Now, I mean, that quickly gets bandied around a lot.

[00:10:59] And but I think there’s some merit in it in that. First of all, I don’t know that it’s necessarily Western women, but I think it’s women with access to resources. And those women also exist in Africa. They also exist in, you know, in the east. They exist in many, many places. But it’s women with access to resources, women who can access power and resources, I think is what he’s talking about with women, with opportunity and specifically talking about women. I think it’s because whether it’s because of our nature or the way that we’re brought up in our cultural paradigm, I don’t think it really matters. But we have a deeper access to compassion. We feel others perhaps more on average, not every woman compared to every man, but on average, I think women do feel humanity’s pain and suffering a lot more, and therefore we are driven to want to change it.

[00:11:49] But as I was reflecting on it, as I was reflecting on it with James, you know, being just six weeks old, I thought he’s not talking about politicians and, you know, leaders of major corporations and so on. He’s talking about me. He’s talking about my neighbor and my sister and my mom. My gran, you know, women, women, everyday community, what I now call grassroots women leaders, women who are not necessarily designated by some major organization or by some country as a leader, but who have leadership in them in that they want to make an impact in their corner of the world. They want to change something. And I thought that’s who he’s talking about, because if we could all change our corner of the world, then that would make a massive difference through a partnership with men, of course, not exclusively just women. But it just felt I just there was a truth to that for me. And I realized as I looked around that most of the women I knew were tearing around like headless chickens with juggling everything, juggling not just their work, but also most of the family life, the great burden of the family life. You know, who’s buying the Christmas presents, who’s going away for lunch and just handling everything. And there was never enough time to make the impact that I knew that in our hearts that we were being called to make.

[00:13:23] So that’s how we’re one of many was started as a kind of I wanted to build a space, a community of women who wanted to change the world for the better. And we’re all far too busy to do that, to be able to equip them with the tools to handle that day to day juggle whilst they stepped up to the leadership that they felt called to. And that’s where we started a little over six years ago now. And we have grown rapidly in that period of time from just, you know, a small community here in the UK to now a global community to run an event. Just a couple of days ago, we had a thousand people on that event, an online event that we did, and we had women from about 30 different countries. You know, we’ve got certified coaches now in 14 different countries. It’s absolutely extraordinary how rapidly it’s grown. And I can’t say that that’s down to me. It’s just I think it was an idea whose time had come and the community that has been attracted to it own it like it is their own. And they share so voraciously because it makes such a difference for them, I think.

Miko Santos [00:14:30] So sets one of many apart from other leadership coaching approach? I know there’s a lot of different coaching for women. So what? Yeah, one of many set apart so different.

Dr. Jo Martin [00:14:47] Do you know I don’t know? I really don’t know because, I mean, as a marketer, I know you’re here is exactly what sets us apart. I should be able to answer that question. But the magic that I’ve witnessed entity is magic. What I’ve seen inside of our growth, I can’t put down to, you know, the investment that we made in our brand, the investment that we’ve made in our state. Like, I can’t put it down to any one thing that sets it apart differently. The tools that we have are absolute, I believe, second to none in that they are designed by women for women and they draw on the history and experience of myself and my two content collaborators, Susie Heath and Annie Stroker, who between us when we started, had over 70 years experience of working both with men and women and noticing that the old school tools, the old paradigm tools weren’t serving, weren’t serving of women.

[00:15:45] They they focused on goals. And you just get your goal and you go for your goal. But there was nothing there about the unique strengths of women, about the cyclical nature of women. So so we got together and put our heads together. And I think the tool belt is pretty exquisite. Having said that, I think it isn’t the toolbelt alone. I think there is something in the magic of the integrity and the calling that women have into the community is there are so many women on the planet right now who want the world to be better and they want to make that difference, but they just feel powerless to do it because they’re stuck in the jungle. And I think because we are speaking to that woman, we have this community of women who are making such an exquisite difference, women who are turning their towns, you know, into single-use plastic, Freetown’s women who are starting, you know, biodiversity projects in their village, green, you know, women who are doing turning their community allotment into a food forest for four women who are survivors of domestic abuse. You know, these are women who’ve got things they want to do in the world.

[00:16:59] And I think for that reason, they’re so proud to be a part of the community and to be a part of this group of women. But also, I think they feel held deeply, deeply held perhaps for the first time in their lives in a space that feels really safe, where they open up and they can be vulnerable and truthful about the whole melee of what feeds into their life, you know, their purpose and the difference they want to make sitting right alongside the worries they have for their children, if they have them sitting right alongside how shitty the dating game is them and how hard it is to be single in lockdown, sitting right alongside, you know, how do I leave my abusive partner sitting right alongside. Oh, my God. He just proposed. I’m so happy, you know, like the wholeness of the woman. She’s not just this one job that she has or this one role as a mother or this one piece that wholeness. There’s just the space for all of her in our community. And I, I don’t know. But if I had to have a guess, I would say it is that which has meant that the community is in the space. Do you know our community? Krofft it they build it, they set the tone. It’s there, it’s their space. It really is a community space that belongs to all of us.

Miko Santos [00:18:26] Is your part of the women’s in business as an entrepreneur, what do you think is in Australia right now, that the federal government has dished out a total of around 12 million grant to fund the women’s business? So some 50  start-up have received a grant between twenty-five thousand four hundred eighty. So what do you think about that, that they’re boosting start-up women’s?

Dr. Jo Martin [00:18:55] I think it’s absolutely fantastic because I think what we need is positive discrimination in both the entrepreneurial space and I think in the general leadership space in order to get us where we need to go. Because when you look at all of the research, all of the research, we know that more women in leadership are good for business, whTther that’s in a major organization or women-led start-ups and women founded companies. they’re you know, all of the research points to the fact that they are safer investments, because I think where I don’t know why I’ve got some hypotheses on this, but we’re very we’re a very safe pair of hands, I think, because we perhaps are a little more nervous of business, because we haven’t been in business for the last like 6000 years. You know, like it’s really only been in the last 30 to 50 years that women-founded organizations have even really been a thing. So I think there’s this historical lack of confidence and that historical lack of confidence, I think makes us a very safe pair of hands, which is great. So I think things like grant grants to support women-led businesses are smart because those grants are going to be those women will do whatever the hell they can to make that work. You know, I really do believe that it’s there’s a lot of research that shows in the developing world that if you invest in women, in communities, that you will transform the wealth or transform the poverty level of that entire community, that it’s women-centered and women-led strategies in the developing world. Because when a woman has enough for herself, she says that with her family the way even before that. Right.

[00:20:46] She says with a family and when a family is taken care of, she says with the whole community has a very community focus, whereas that’s not necessarily always the case, not exclusively, but not necessarily always the case with strategies that have, you know, that have men at the center or indeed both sexes at the center. So I really do think if there’s so much research that shows that work in the developing world, we know that in big business that there’s a thirty percent higher return to shareholders, 35 percent, a higher return on equity. When you have a significantly larger number of people on boards and in senior executive positions, it makes absolute sense that women-founded and women-led entrepreneurial businesses are going to do well. And for me, I would always invest in a woman women-led business before I would with a male-led business because I know how carefully that woman is going to take care of my money and how carefully she is going to work to not only build up for herself and her own wellbeing but bring others along the ride with her. You know, I think it’s it’s a real distinction that I say I think that’s a great strategy. I didn’t wasn’t aware of that. And that’s awesome.

Miko Santos [00:22:00] Thank you for that. So we’re talking about this because you’re focusing on equipping women to be balance and demand of balance of life and demand of life as well. Let’s talk about burnout. So why do you think women are more susceptible to burnout than men?

Dr. Jo Martin [00:22:34] I think there’s a lot that goes into it, but one of the critical pieces, I think is because, as we say, it is the cultural paradigm in which we live. If we come back to that, we started talking about this individualism and, you know, we celebrate competition, achievement, focus, drive, and so in the workplace, which is a very masculine paradigm as well. Women think that if they want to keep up and play the game, they have to become even more driven, even more focused, even more competitive. So we think that the only way to get ahead or to play the game is to be even greater versions of what I call superwoman. You know, she that can handle everything, do it all, focus, drive, push through, make it happen late nights, juggling everything else, you know, doing the whole thing. Now, that’s my hypothesis on this, and it’s just a hypothesis, I’ve not done the research, but I’d be interested to do it at some point. My hypothesis on this is that that mode of operating, that very focused, aggressive pursuit of a goal.

[00:23:41] Right, that competitive pursuit of a goal is hormonally moderated in our bodies. Right. Any energetic state. We have a cacophony of hormones going on. And in the male body, that aggressive focus drive is driven by testosterone. Right. It’s we know that if you inject testosterone into rats, they get aggressive, they get competitive and they get driven. And so interestingly, women, we have a little testosterone in our bodies, but we have a fraction of the testosterone of men. And so my hypothesis is that in order to stay in that focused push through competitive space or frame of mind to succeed in work or starting up a business or whatever it is, we then very quickly start relying on our adrenaline, cortisol access so our stress hormones to stay in that hyper switched-on state. And so I think that this is why we see greater levels of burnout in women than men because we literally burn out our adrenaline system because that’s the way that we need that hormonal kick to keep pushing through at that level. As I say, it’s our hypothesis. But interestingly, an old client of mine from back in May speaks of training days, a naturopath out in Australia. She remembers saying to me, Joe, it’s really interesting.

[00:25:06] I’ve been measuring hormone levels in women now for over ten years. And this was about ten years ago when she told me I’d be interested to follow up with her and see what she’s discovered. But she said, I have seen a steady rise in testosterone levels in women over that period of time on average. So it’s interesting because our bodies are responding to the, you know, the demands that we’re putting on to them. And even our female bodies are becoming more masculinized in response to the stresses of life, which is why I think we’re starting to see more infertility in so many couples having trouble conceiving. So this is where our paradigm is actually impacting us at an evolutionary level, and it isn’t serving us as human beings.

[00:25:49] Let’s go outside of the individual about burnout. So how big is the problem in the burden of our society, save society, business, and politics?

[00:26:01] I think it’s huge and I think it’s underreported and I think it’s understated. We have so many women who come into our community who would never say they were burned out until they’ve been in our community for three to six months.

[00:26:14] And then they go, oh, oh, that’s why I can’t stop crying, you know, that’s why I don’t feel like I’ve got any mojo for anything. That’s why I’m shouting at my kids all of the time is actually because they’re on their knees with exhaustion, with burnout. I think it’s I think it’s underreported. I think people don’t feel comfortable to say because it’s some expression of weakness. But I really do feel it’s a result of the paradigm in which we live. And then does that mean it is a foregone conclusion? Absolutely not. And it’s one of the things that we talk about at one of many is you don’t have to be more superwoman to be more effective. You know, we’ve got alternatives that we can do. But I think I think, you know, I don’t know exactly what the research and stats show in Australia by all of the research that we’ve looked at over here in the UK, especially in the caring professions, you know, the medical professions and so on, nursing, teaching, it’s remarkably high and only getting worse through the pandemic.

[00:27:18] In fact, in the Women in the Workforce report that was recently released by McKinsey in the US, I believe it was McKinsey. Sorry, I’m late at night as we’re doing this and it’s just gone out of my head. But the Women in Work report that was just recently released for twenty showed that one in four women are actually thinking of leaving the workforce completely because of the additional impact that the pandemic is having on us in terms of our ability to do life, you know, and that’s remarkable. That says to me that there it’s too much for women and they’re looking for alternatives. Now, some of those women are going to turn to entrepreneurialism and startup. Some of them are going to check out altogether and go, no, I’ll do parenting or I’ll do this. And my partner can go do that, which is interesting. And I don’t think it’s great. I don’t think it’s great for business. I don’t think it’s great for women. I don’t think it’s great for our kids. But we’ve got to shift the paradigm if we want to be able to sustain inside of it. So it’s got to start with shifting our own personal paradigm so we can show up differently and. That burnout isn’t the only option, that there is another way we can perform inside the paradigm. And then when enough women are in running the businesses and enough women are leading the teams and leading in politics, then perhaps we will shift the paradigm, which will be better not just for women, but for men and for our kids as well. You know, and I think that’s what I’m hoping for and I pray for and why I do what I do every day.

Miko Santos [00:28:49] So you keep saying about being a superwoman, so and all of us have been celebrated superheroes and characters in the film. So you have a different view about superwomen.

Dr. Jo Martin [00:29:17] I do. I really do. There was actually a book in the 80s written called How to Be a Superwoman, and that book is responsible for my content collaborator Susie Heaths, two of her burnouts. I think as women we expect ourselves. There was a great thing that happened with the second wave of feminism in that we were able to take our seat at the table in terms of business. Right. We were able to impact in career. And don’t get me wrong, I don’t think it’s equal, but it’s absolutely not equal yet. There is absolutely still unconscious bias and has an impact. It impacts us every day. I was largely ignorant of it as a woman. I’m like, what are you talking about?

[00:29:54] I get treated the same, but I really didn’t as I look back now. So I think we haven’t achieved equality. But what it allowed for us was, you know, come into the workforce. But what didn’t happen was a shift that said, OK, and now let’s make sure there’s a real partnership at home on the domestic duties. Let’s make sure there’s really like, you know, it takes a village to raise a kid. But where is that village in our very nuclear families that are isolated from each other by geography, from, you know, the grandparents and the sisters and aunts and whatever it we don’t live that way anymore? And then the media tells us we have to be hot, we have to be beautiful. We have to spend how long getting our legs waxed every month and getting our head-on and doing our makeup every day and wearing heels to work.

[00:30:48] And, you know, all of the additionals that we have to do to just kind of show up and do my job and be taken seriously. That really isn’t there for blokes in the same way. It’s just not there. And so the archetype that we have taken on to be able to deliver on these insanely high expectations of what it is to be a woman in this day and age, the archetype we take on is Superwoman. And Superwoman is able to do all of that right. She does it. She gets it done. She can get the work done. She can stay late. She can juggle the childcare for the kids. If she has them, she can you know, she can get date night booked and get out and make sure that she’s doing that and go home and be in the bedroom and know everything. She gets it all done.

[00:31:36] And the person who loses out is her because she’s going so fast, she’s not connected to her purpose, she’s going so fast, her body burns out, she’s going so fast, she doesn’t even know whether she’s coming or going. And it’s addictive. The high of it is addictive. But ultimately,  it doesn’t serve the individual woman. Right. I mean, I went through this phase myself. I know it really, really well. And many of us, myself included, don’t stop at being Superwoman. Some of us become Superman. And speaking from personal experience, if you really want to piss off a man, be a better man. And, you know, like it killed my relationships. I was so masculine in my relationships, it killed my health. So for me, opening up to femininity, you know, and God, you know, it felt like a dirty word for me back when I started exploring it, what I now call soft power, because it has doesn’t come with all the connotations that I had to work through.

[00:32:39] But opening up to that, recognizing that I did not have to do it all by myself and that partnership was necessary, collaboration was necessary not just with my husband, but with my team and with other people to achieve anything, and that there had to be space for me in the center of all of it, a real nurturing, nourishing, caring and dare I say, pleasurable space for me in the center of all of it. I couldn’t do any of it. And so shifting out of Superwoman and now into what I refer to as the five women’s power types have allowed me to grow three successful businesses, two of which we’ve led into seven-figure revenues and in one case, high six-figure profits in the other where, you know, we’re growing something much larger. So I’m reinvesting. But it’s it’s through using the power types, you know, it’s true. It’s true. Accessing those power types, accessing soft power, and knowing that superwoman actually is great for 15 minutes to get something done and finished. But she’s terrible. If it’s 15 minutes, a bit more than 15, 15 months, some of us have been doing it for 15 years. And that’s what’s causing the burnout, you know.

Miko Santos [00:34:04] OK, so tell us about the health power types so that I understand are. Yes. You said that part of your approach.

Dr. Jo Martin [00:34:13] Yeah, part of our approach is exploring, exploring women’s power in a new way. So our philosophy is that we need a new kind of power to be the women that the world needs us to be. You know, we need a new kind of power to be the women we want to be, quite frankly, because that superwoman power, which is got us this far, and credit and gratitude to our foremothers for sisters and aunts that fought for us to have what we have. No, we stand on those shoulders. But that continual execution of that power is not going to serve humanity in the next iteration, you know. So for myself, I’m like, well, what if it’s not that, what is it?

[00:35:14] And I looked around me and I didn’t have any role models of what I would call strong feminine power. I didn’t have them. Do you know my mum’s a real tomboy? My two grandmothers were very masculine matriarchs. I just didn’t have I didn’t have a frame of reference for what it even looked like. And so it was then that I started looking into archetypes and I discovered I discovered initially Jung’s form for archetypes of the mature feminine as I was reading about them, like, ah, that’s it, you know, but there wasn’t enough.

[00:35:46] And that’s where we added a fifth one in. So we took about the five women’s power types and they are the mother power type. She is the one that our culture does allow us. She is strong and feminine and we’re familiar with the mother kind of energy. We know that, but we have done. But the problem with that is a lot of women overdo that archetype. Therefore, you know, they take her into the boardroom, they take her into business meetings, they hold on to the team members longer than they should because they’re nourishing and nurturing all of that time. And she’s not the only one. So there is also the love of power type. Now, the love of power type is that power type, which is, yes, our connection to our sensuality and our sexuality. But I think most importantly for women, especially as they start the journey, is recognizing that she’s. The one who nurtures and nourishes our body, our vessel, this one kind of vessel that we have to do our work in the world, she is the center of our self-care, you know, looking after ourselves.

[00:36:47] So being able to access that love of power, that nourishes you, that brings pleasure into your life, that that sees rest and replenishment and pleasure as the cause of great work, not as only the reward of great work is critical. We also have the clean power type. Now, the queen is the one who holds the vision for the realm. She loves her structure and systems and she is clear on her boundaries. She doesn’t do analysis paralysis. You know, she decides and she gets her team and her. And when I say team, that might be the family, it might be the work team, it might be a group of friends. But she orchestrates collaboration to get things done. You know, that’s that clean energy, which is really powerful. We also have the warrior’s power type and she is that defender against injustice. You know, I always think of Materi in Avatar or Boudicca over here in the UK. We talk about a lot, you know, that that energy that fights for what she believes in, that youthful, playful kind of energy that gets shit done.

[00:37:51] She’s amazing. Much better than Superwoman for getting things done because she shakes it off at the end of the day and has a good party and you know, and knows how to unwind. And then also the Sorcerous power type and sorcerous. We chose that name very, very carefully because it’s she that’s connected to source energy. And we all have a different name for that. Some of us call it God, some of us call it Allah.

[00:38:12] Some of us call it Buddha consciousness or whatever it is. And we have many different names. Our highest, just our intuition. Right. That’s something bigger. And Sorcerous is the part that connects to that. So in our community, we have these five women’s power types at the center of a lot of our tools. We have a power type profile that people can do to work out which is their strongest and therefore what kind of leader they’re best assets and what kind of challenges they might be experiencing in their daily lives because of their profile.

[00:38:43] But it also shows up in many of our other planning tools. It shows up in our time management tools. They show up in many, many different places because they are so central to the work. And if we can access these five, then we don’t have to do superwoman. We can actually bring gravitas. We can bring playfulness, we can bring joy. We can bring a little bit of the numinous, a little bit of the divine into our work and actually get a hell of a lot more done with a lot less effort than Superwoman, who has to do it all by herself better than everybody and be the bright and brightest and the shiniest. It’s a much more sustainable way of working.

Miko Santos [00:39:23] So are the leaders now that you think a great example like of soft power?

Dr. Jo Martin [00:39:29] Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. You’ve just got to look across the pond in Australia. Look at Jacinda Ardern. Right. What an extraordinary example of all five of the power types in action. She is someone who epitomizes what I call this radical, strong, compassionate leadership. I think she does a great job of it and she’s not the only one. I think through the pandemic we’ve seen, you know, a lot of the heads of government in the Nordic states, you know, in Taiwan as well, women who are really doing an amazing job of embodying these power types, these soft power types.

[00:40:13] We see the mother energy in the way that Jacinda responded to the huge shooting that was in the mosque. That time we saw I saw mother power type in the way that she told the kids that the Easter Bunny, you know, the Easter Bunny was part of the essential services at Easter time during the pandemic. And she did a special press conference. We see her warrior S.A.G. when she’s had to show up and really make a stand for what she believes in, her clean energy when she holds the vision and she speaks about her vision for the organization and she brought in her wellbeing budget. You know, she’s just such a wonderful example of all of these.

And then, I mean, I follow her on Instagram and I see her love of power type as well. You know, little things like her. Her mum made her peanut butter on toast at some point, you know, just really keeping it real nourishing herself, looking after herself. And God, she gave birth. She gave birth to a baby while she was, you know, prime minister. What an extraordinary human being she is. And I think she just really epitomizes this. It takes a village and she credits her village every step of the way, every post, every everything that she does. She’s reflecting that light of how awesome she is on her team. She’s a fabulous example of it.

Miko Santos [00:41:31] So do you have any final advice or anything else you want to share with our women’s business or start-up or business owners as well?

Dr. Jo Martin [00:41:42] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, gosh, there’s so much I would say, but if you’re starting up a business, I remember the start-up phase, right? I remember it vividly. I remember working till 2:00 and 3:00 in the morning to get work done for delivery. You know, I was a workshop I was delivering the next day. I remember the hustle of trying to find those first clients and getting things going. It is really hard. It is. There is no doubt it is hard in the beginning. The phase of a business takes a lot of warriors’ energy. But that is what I would say about I would say recognize you’re going to need your warriors’ to get this off the ground. You’re going to need your clean energy to hold the vision, to keep speaking the vision because that’s what people want. They want to know the vision. They don’t care about the service.

[00:42:29] They don’t care about the product. They care about the vision, the purpose. Right. You’re going to need that clean energy. But if you couldn’t. If I could if there’s something I could really leave, it is recognizing that you rest, your you’re looking after your own needs, your basic needs, getting lunch, having dinner, sleep, drinking enough water, pleasure, like doing pleasurable things in your everyday life. It is that which fills the well, which will drive your personal achievement. Lunch is not the reward for a morning’s hard work. Lunch is a prerequisite for humanists.

[00:43:11] You know, a great night out with your friends is not the reward for how far you’ve got with your work. It is the cause of the creativity and the innovation that you will bring back into the work that you’re doing to the business that you’re starting. So make time. Make time for that. I’ve seen an ad, a Facebook ad that’s showing up in my feed at the moment. I just want to poke pins in the eyes of the person who puts it out there saying, you know, this is the face I pull when I’ve done three hours of work and I’m finished for the day while most people are still taking care of their self-care, I don’t even know whose ad it is, but it annoys me because it’s a bloke, right? And men do.

[00:43:51] Men can execute differently than women that we can and women can do. We can do whatever the hell we like. We’re amazing, right. But I think what we overlook as women, we see something like that and then we think, oh, I’m not working hard enough. I shouldn’t be doing self-care. Self-care’s not necessary. And that annoys me because actually self-care is central. If you don’t look out after yourself, you’re going to be a shitty mom to your kids. You’re going to be a shitty friend, a shitty lover. You’re going to be a shitty human being that can’t hear her own purpose. We must put ourselves at the center and that means basics, taking care of our needs, and letting that drive the expression of the vision we want to bring into the world. Without it, we’re empty and empty. Women don’t build great businesses.

Miko Santos [00:44:37] Any parting words for our audience or listener?

Dr. Jo Martin [00:44:40] Oh, just go out and build those businesses because the world needs us to be bringing our contribution to the world. No doubt about that.

Miko Santos [00:44:47] Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Jo. So to all our listener audience and watching right now as well. So you can check all the links of Jo will be going on the show notes. So please have a look so you can if someone wants to have a chat with you, how they can contact you.

Dr. Jo Martin [00:45:10] I am most active on Instagram and I’ve got a Facebook page. So if people want to kind of look me up, you’ll find me there. Our website for one of many is one of many. Okay, so you can find out about all of our coaching and training there.

[00:45:26] And if you want me specifically, I’ve got my website, so plenty of ways. A quick Google search. You’ll find me and get in contact however you like.

Miko Santos [00:45:36] Thank you for your time for another episode of Tribe Podcasts under Auspod Syndicate. Once again, thank you to our sponsor Kangeroofern Media Lab, a podcast management service. You can check the and also if you want, join our community. So follow us on Facebook, Rebounce Australia, or check our website at and support us 

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