Bootstrap Podcast Transcripts: lloyd Ross – Founder of Money Grows on Trees

Bootstrap Podcast Transcripts: lloyd Ross – Founder of Money Grows on Trees

Please enjoy this transcript of my interview with Lloyd Ross (@Llyodjamesross) A former lawyer, Lloyd has 3 university degrees in biomedical science, business and law. He was admitted to the Supreme Court of Qld as a lawyer in 2008. He is also a candidate for the Level 3 CFA Charter exam. Lloyd has built a million-dollar share portfolio from scratch in his spare time, and is the author of the newest book on personal finance “Money Grows on Trees.”

He was also the INBA natural bodybuilding comp winner in 2016, and just completed his first 100km ultra-marathon.
He and his wife, Alisha are the founders of “The Side Hustle Secret


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Miko Santos: Welcome to our Bootstrap podcast under Auspod syndicate. Mr. Lloyd Ross. Welcome to the show.

Llyod Ross : Thanks. Great to be here. Thanks so much for having me on I’m all about bootstrapping to success. So happy to be here.

MIko Santos: Thank you so much for your time. So. I’d love to start with. Can you tell me a little bit about you, who you are and how you got to where you are now, including the writing, this very interesting book, Money Grows and trees.

Llyod Ross : Yes, I can. Thank you so much. Well, that’s my alarm to make sure that I get on time for your podcasts. That’s it’s great to kind of hear that. I think it’s really interesting is looking back at what you’ve achieved. I think that’s a lot, there’s a lot in there. but also feel like I’ve, underachieved a lot too because I compare myself to a lot of the hitters out there.
Who’ve done wonderful things with their life in the world and their career?

So, and I started off like at university, like you read out that information and it’s like, I had, I spent way too long at university, but I had a very persuasive father and he, he always wanted an education for me because he didn’t have one. So that’s where it started, but I wasn’t really into academics. And I got into corporate real estate and property development. Didn’t really have. The nature for that either I was I’m really psychologically unemployable in a nine to five type role. It’s just kept for me. So I had this entrepreneurial bone or edge that I needed to scratch.

And eventually, I left the corporate world. I resigned in 2012 and got into property sales, which is a step closer to having a bit more freedom and flexibility. But I was self-employed. I didn’t have a business. I didn’t have any automatic income. I actually just had to show up and do the selling. So I looked further into ways I could earn income, a residual type income, and got into the world of accidentally network marketing, which allowed us to market products all over the world from our bedroom.

And we built a million-dollar business doing that part-time so we bootstrapped our way there. Cause we only started up for about 500 bucks and bootstrapped our way all the way to a very great full-time income in that industry. Plus. I was able to develop a million-dollar share portfolio at that time as well. That produces great passive income for us. And I just launched my new book, money grows on trees with my courses on money and investing. So really excited to get that going. And that’s already producing, you know, great profits already since September. So yeah, busy and excited. And that’s, that’s kind of how I’ve it’s led me to here on your podcast.

MIko Santos : So during your, during your journey, I know your dad is one of them, you say one of the big-name on entrepreneurship in the business industry. Is your dad a big influence in your journey as an entrepreneur?

Llyod Ross : Yeah, definitely he, he really, because he left school in grade 10 and was like a plant mechanic. He was a diesel fitter. He was in its trade and he didn’t like that. So he got into the world of sales in life insurance. And so he really was trying to as a salesman and he was a very, very, very effective as salesman one of the best.

And when I was young, I got to see him. He worked really hard, so he would travel away, wor really hard. He, became a millionaire at 28 and built one of the top 400 companies in our state. By the time he was in his mid-thirties, which is incredible. It’s 30, 40,000 clients across Australia. And yeah, so I got to witness firsthand the success, the meteoric success that he had, which brought me closer to the world of entrepreneurship. And then burns down and builds a property business that has been running for 35 years. That was also great to model that and to model him. So he’s definitely been the biggest influence in my life in terms of business to date. I think, you know.

MIko Santos: DId you realize you, you follow your footsteps with your father?

Llyod Ross : Well, yeah, cause I always wanted to work with them. It would, you know, made a lot of sense. It was the most successful person I knew personally. But I never really got a chance to him until I was about 28. So I went to university, got in, became a lawyer, got into corporate, and then ended up coming back and working with him for about seven years in the property business.

And it was fine. It was fantastic. It was challenging. It was great. learn A lot. I think taught him a lot too. And we helped each other and, it was. It, I always did want to follow in those footsteps too, to put it bluntly. I, of course, it just made sense. But then after that, after I did that, I was okay, I’ve done the followed in the footsteps.
Now I’m going to make my own footsteps and that’s really what led me to get into online business. And I just, it grew from there and now I’m kind of, we’re doing well, take out my own path, so to speak.

Miko Santos : Right. So I was reading your biography. It’s you got three degrees and do you any regret of because you’re starting, you got biomedical, law and business and now you are in entrepreneur journey. How do you feel? Cause you’ve got three degrees working, right? working on the Corporate area, and now you’re doing differently from what you study.

Llyod Ross : Yup. Yup. I back in the early two thousands when I graduated high school in the year 2000, so it’s 20 years ago. And back in those days, Entrepreneurship was not what it is now. So like, you couldn’t just create a business almost out of thin air using social media, but it wasn’t available, then it wasn’t around. It. Wasn’t a thing. And the Apple iPhone hadn’t been invented yet. So it was just, it, it just, the opportunities weren’t out there like that, that’s what you did back then.

You went to university and you went into the corporate world and then perhaps you bought a franchise or you got into business some other way but I never had any. I didn’t, I didn’t know what was going to happen to my life. I can’t say I regret those three degrees because it shows up as quite a, it’s quite a thing.

When someone reads that they get wet like it’s a bit of a wow factor because it does take tremendous discipline to finish those heavyweight degrees from great business schools and law schools. And so I don’t regret it. It’s just that I wouldn’t do it again, knowing what I know now, because it’s so simple to jump on and start a business, like from your iPhone in your bedroom and create amazing freedom income. I just, I think the world of academics is not as valuable. It was what it used to be. So yeah, no regrets, but wouldn’t do it again. All right.

Miko Santos : So you’re saying because during your time it’s going into entrepreneurship it’s a hard work, unlike today. Is that right?

Llyod Ross : Well, back then, yeah, because back then it was like, I remember, you know, you had to, you could still do it, but I think.
It was a bit harder because to access people back then, I think the main conduit for traffic was email addresses. Email marketing was big back then and so how do you become a great direct response marketer, an email, and I don’t know anyone doing that back then. And I remember my dad had telemarketer is though just call calling. I mean, that was how you started the business back then you cold, cold from your phone.

And I remember even asking girls for a date. It was a cold call to their home number at the house. You know, millennials would never do that. Now. That would be ridiculous. So. That’s the world of business back then. And I guess it was just harder from a risk standpoint needed you back then you required more capital you required taking on more risk and you required more skills in terms of getting on the phone and doing selling and stuff. I think. So it was a lot harder back then. I feel personal, sorry.

Miko Santos: Now you’re inside the entreprenuership arena. How do you feel.

Llyod Ross : I feel great. I feel really good. I feel it’s the thing with entrepreneurship is not a zero-sum game. Like it’s not a finite game it’s an infinite game. It’s not where you climb to CEO level and then you get cross recruited to CEO somewhere else.

And then you just spend your wife as a CEO. It’s like the world is unlimited in your growth and. And income and impact. It’s unlimited, like, look at Grant Cardone. He has just gone from one level to analogy. It’s almost like he just keeps going. Elon Musk, you know, going to go to Mars. I mean, there’s just unlimited uncapped and that’s what I love about entrepreneurship.
So it really makes me happy to always be progressing. And I don’t, and it’s a puzzle that you never get to solve, which is so entertaining and interesting. And. There are so many parts to it that you have to level up and become a great human being to be a successful entrepreneur. So I’m really happy with just being on the journey. I’m happy with that. That’s what gives me happiness. Like I’m happiest right now doing this with you. This is me as a happiest, you know, does it a lot.

Miko Santos: So is there any challenges during this time for being a entrepreneurs? Some businesses out closing down because of the COVID. So what is your challenge being an entrepreneurs?

Llyod Ross : Well, compared to a lot of others, I don’t feel like I’ve had that massive challenges. So like, you know, COVID, didn’t actually affect our business. In fact, we grew by about 300% because it’s largely online what we do.

So I think being in front of the trends and being a fast adopter, an early adopter, and an innovator. Prevents a lot of problems because I found even when I started working with my dad, that the business hadn’t been innovated fast enough, and the pivot should have happened about five or six or seven years earlier. And it didn’t and so w our hand was forced. And when you’re forced to pivot. That’s when you got a lot of problems. And I think you’re seeing that now with COVID, a lot of companies have now officially been forced to pivot online, but they should have been exploring that opportunity 10 years ago. They should have, but they didn’t that lag laggard they’re too late to change.

So I feel like being on the front foot and being innovative. Has prevented us from having major problems, but we’ve also been relatively lucky because regulation hasn’t really thrown a spare in the works to date. But I think there were moments where, you know like I was in business with my dad and we, you know, we were struggling to pay the rent and stuff.
And there were moments where we get locked out of the office and from there, like there was some bad, like hardcore things that happened during that period that I was a part of. I think the most challenging thing launching out our network marketing business, in the beginning, was figuring out the marketing because this box of products rocks up at your house and you’ve got to figure out how to market it from the beginning.

And you’ve got to bootstrap your way. They’re like you have no budget, no experience, no funnels, nothing, no, no existing audience or list. It’s just like, here’s the box. How are you going to sell more of these? And that’s, that was probably the biggest challenge because we started off handing out flyers in the the theme park car parks to cars.

That’s how we started and it failed miserably, but we had, we went okay. That didn’t work. Let’s try, you know, blasting it to the email list and doing an automated campaign that didn’t work so well. And then eventually we started modeling people that were successful and bit by bit, we had a little bit more success, a little bit more success and a little bit more success, but we’ve done little things that have failed that I think we’ve been pretty smart. So we’ve not had anything drastically fail as yet.

Miko Santos : That’s great. Based on your experience? What is your advice to like a startup and they have an idea. So they say starting an online business what is your advice to them so that they can be successful and not to make some mistakes?

Llyod Ross : Well, You have to make mistakes. There’s no doubt about that. I mean, you have to really jump in and make mistakes and be okay with it. As long as you’re quick to become aware of them and say, well, that was a mistake. Let’s keep it and move here. And let’s try this because the world of business and marketing and online business and so forth is really more about testing and measuring things.

So you’re testing all the time. You’re experimenting all the time until you discover. Wow. That worked really well. Let’s do that again. And once you discover that way, that’s worked, you doubled down on it. You start to scale it. Okay. So you start to really dig deep into that one area that’s producing the most sales for you. So my advice would be when you’re starting a business, number one, you don’t have to create the product. That is probably the number one thing preventing people from getting started today is they think they have to create the product. And of course, they can’t think of it. They don’t know how to do it.

And I know this did the stopped it’s game over. They’re done. And it’s like, Whoa, that didn’t last long. So I think the first lesson is don’t create your own product when you first started out. The second lesson is you need an audience, you need traffic, you need people who want to buy your thing. So once you’ve established your product and you, you’ve got to have someone else, whether you’re partnering with a network marketing company, affiliate product or an in someone else’s info product, whatever it is, um, even if you bought a Valley express and you want to resell stuff and drop ship it, that’s still someone else’s product you’re using, which is totally fine.

It’s how most entrepreneurs get started. Then you have to have traffic. You have to have eyeballs on your offer. And the far, the most effective way is to get eyeballs on your offer is to create some sort of organic traffic because you don’t have to pay for it. So if we’re talking about bootstrapping and starting out with not a lot of money, then you have to be on Instagram.
You have to be on Instagram and posting three times a day, right. Minimum. And you have to be doing stories on Instagram and you have to be DM other people and networking through Instagram a lot. And I think Facebook and Instagram are where you start and you have to be doing Facebook lives, Instagram lives, Facebook stories, Instagram stories, and networking there to really start to just begin to build up some traffic of a potential customer to your offer.

Okay. That’s the first thing, ’cause it’ll get you used to be in front of the camera to get you used to saying things and talking about your staff and sharing your story. And it’ll get you building up a potential organic audience, basically. That’s where you’ve got to begin. All right and it’s free. And then you have to make enough set. So you have to, the third thing is when someone’s interested in your product or your thing, your service or your product, you have to have a system which onboard them or gets them to buy. So either a funnel either a link, a webinar, a sale, or a phone call, like a budget book, a phone call.

And we jump on the phone and see if you can do a sale. Right. It has to have some mechanism to take them from, okay, you got an inquiry from social media. How do you convert them into a sale now? And you have to have that system down the path, you know, you’d want to test that system out. Okay. It’ll suck when you first start for sure because it’s just very clunky, but over time you’ll find something that works.

That’s the third lesson. And then once you’ve got that, And you’ve got your product. You’ve got your traffic and eyeballs on it. You know, your offer on social media and you’ve got your sales, converting systems or organized, then they’re the three core things you really need to establish and execute on to begin. Once that happens after that, it’s about, okay, this works. How do we scale? How do we get more eyeballs? And that’s when you can go to paid traffic and. You know, supportive groups, Facebook groups to build a community around your product, which helps a lot. And then after that affiliates get some affiliates to start sharing your stuff for you.

Miko Santos : So thank you for that. What is your opinion about getting a mentor?

Llyod Ross : Yes, massively you, you just, success is most easily achieved when it’s modeled from someone who’s already doing it. If you don’t have a mentor, you would just, it’s just going to take you so long and you’re gonna make a lot of mistakes you don’t need to. So definitely selling up next to a mentor would be a wonderful step to begin with even, you know, to that point. And it’s a great point you raised because that should probably be the first and.

I mean, realistically online now you can actually go and be mentored by people like Russell Brunson and Dan Henry, and Frazer Brooks. And these guys who are online, you can just settle up to their staff and buy their courses. And. Follow them. And that’s the beginnings of your mentorship? Read their books.

Miko Santos : Great. So, so you’ve been successful in your business But when was it that you decide to write this book? So money grew on three. So when I starts see that money, I have, I have a money tree outside of my house, but Money Grows on trees.

Llyod Ross : Do you have the Money Tree? That’s good. I’m glad. I mean, the thing is that during mine. I started investing in shares when I was 24. I read Robert Kiyosaki’s book, rich dad, poor dad, the richest man in Babylon.

I read the snowball by Warren buffet or read the intelligent investor. I read a lot of books on money investing when I was younger. In my early twenties, late teens and early twenties, I got really started very early and I didn’t want to buy real estate because I knew it didn’t produce cashflow. So I learned about stocks and then I went and did my CFA charter, which is a really tough financial exam.

It’s the hottest in the world. And it’s more thought of, and more sought after than an MBA now. And I got to level three of that three-part exam. Six hours of study for a year said it was hectic. I did that in my mid-twenties. The late twenties. And I learned so much and I started investing in building up this massive share portfolio. Massive for me. Anyway, it’s now about seven figures and it allowed me to, like, what I learned was they find, invest in dividend stocks and was patient over the time and added to it that I would have effectively planted the money tree. I’d taken the money. I’d earned. I’d saved it. And then I’d invested it in stocks and that was producing money back to me.

So I was basically buying income. And to me, it felt like I’d planted the money tree. It had grown, and now it was producing instead of fruit, it was producing money. And I thought everyone knew about that and it turns out they didn’t, and it turns out all my network marketing. The journey of building my business that is fricking a lot of people have no idea about the basics of money and investing.

It just appeared to me. So I started blogging about it on Facebook and Instagram and people started asking me about stuff. I became a bit of money, money man thing. And I saw a gap in the market and a great friend of mine who was my boxing coach and also a friend who did a hundred-kilometer ultra marathon with my wife and me. He said to me, one day, you’re going to write a book and you’re going to do it in four weeks. I challenge you don’t do it. He wanted me to, he could see the greatness. He knew that it was there. And so with his accountability, I sat and wrote this book in a month. And then we launched it with a joint book launch together, which was so much fun.

And now like, I’m, you know, I’ll probably sell, you know, 11 to 20 books a day. Money grows on trees. And what is exciting about that? Miko is this. It gives people the very first step. About changing their money story, changing their money behavior, understanding the essence of what money is for two to produce more money and how to save and how-to, you know, compound your wealth and the basics, which is what I want to give to people, because I just feel like they haven’t got it and I have, and I wanted to give it to them. So that’s how that eventuated.

Miko Santos : So on this money tree, Bonnie grown tree, how would you. Put this book that you created to the person who wanted to start a business, I would use. Okay. So in the book, it talks about developing three income streams or having three income streams. Most people I know have one, a job just fine. Okay. So I started to go to have a job, got to have some active income, could have some cashflow to put a roof over your head and food on the table and you need that. Okay. So don’t be too into much of a hurry to leave your job. That’s most important in the book, it talks about my own personal journey and I was able to at my job.

Save a bit of money and start investing in shares, which was basically planting and money tree producing cash. But one thing I noticed was this wasn’t enough money. I wasn’t earning enough money at my job to accelerate my portfolio to a million figures, quick enough to get enough passive income to actually lead my job. I just wasn’t building fast enough because in the job you don’t get paid a tremendous amount of money and there’s not a great deal of amount of tax deductions. So it is hard. It’s a long slog to go from an employee all the way over to an investor. It’s just, it’s so long. It’s 40 -50 years. I didn’t have 40 or 50 years.

Okay. I just want a great life now. So coming back to your question, what does this teach people about business? Well, this is the reason why I started my first side hustle. Okay, you can start a business while you’re at your job. And we did, we started a network marketing business while we were both working five or six days a week. So great businesses can be built in the pockets of your time from your phone. And that’s what we did. We started it for $500 and over about two and a half years, we built it up to a hundred thousand years of a hundred thousand dollars of net income per year, while we were still at our job. And that is the beauty of online business and part-time businesses.

You can do it like that. And then once we did that and we scouted up for a bit more, we actually left our jobs once we had enough cashflow. And after that, it grew so much that I was able to put more probably about triple the amount of money into our share portfolio, which means more passive income. So the money tree was able to grow faster and faster with a side hustle business in place.

And now. The businesses are great and big. They’re producing great amounts of cashflow each week. Do you know? So now it’s like the money tree really grows fast. So that’s why I think people need to start a business, you know, and that book does cover the three income strategies that we use. Personally.

Miko Santos: Let’s talk about burnout. You know, I’m a guy, I have a few interviews with the CEO and founder, and on this bootstrap podcast that I’m asking about how you cope up with burnout,?

Llyod Ross : Yeah. So you can burn out like you feel sometimes You can feel the stress within your body and you can’t sleep that well, and you a little bit irritable. You don’t feel, you know, like on top of your game or happy, you know? Cause you, you have pushed your body to the limit because you do, you know, entrepreneurs are hungry. We’re hungry beings. We’re thirsty for success. And sometimes we get dehydrated of the like, cause we, we, we put so much effort into it that you can burn yourself out. And what I’ve learned is to try and switch off about Saturday lunchtime until Sunday evening and switch off and get off my phone and just go do other things and sleeping on Sunday morning.

And, and, and I’ve also stopped doing late, late things at night. Like at 10 and I just, I started to get rid of my phone at around eight 30 or something and just put it away. And are those types of small daily habits of just say, no, that’s enough. I’m going to just go and rest now and read my book or something and just have a good night’s sleep that really helps.
But for me personally, exercise, it really does make a big difference. So I try and run, every day to, to, to prevent burnout. So I like to exercise. Look after my eating and, if I feel like I’m getting stressed and stuff, I just try and change my schedule around a bit and just get off my phone a bit and just recharge.

You know, get a good night’s sleep or two, and then I’m back. So yeah, I think to be careful with burnout because you just want to be at your best all the time. There’s no good rocket being in a situation where you’re a, got to be on point and you’re sick. You’re tired. You can’t think straight and you don’t perform well in all that stuff in your relationships. So it, it, it does happen. But when it does be aware of that and change things, I think

Miko Santos : So my next question is, do you believe on work-life balance being an entropy yours? Cause I spoke to, if you know Travis bell from the back of this guy, I asked him about this. He said, I don’t believe in work-life balance. So what do you think about it

Llyod Ross : it’s a funny thing for an entrepreneur to have work-life balance work-life balances for employees. Work-life balance was created by an employee. And so all of a sudden people think where’s your work-life balance. I’m like, well, I love being imbalanced. It, it, it’s a personal choice because growth, we know as entrepreneurs that growth comes from imbalance, it, it only comes from when you’re out of balance is the only way you grow.

Right. So if you were in a work-life balance all the time, you’re just gonna, I mean, you’re not going to go backward, but you’re just going to skin along the surface. Elon Musk didn’t become the wealthiest guy in the world because he had a work-life balance. He, he became the most famous entrepreneur almost of all time, because he didn’t have a work-life balance.
Steve jobs much the same. He was a hundred hours a week worker and Warren Buffett’s the same. He works, you know, he works long hours, all them bill Gates, you name all the big entrepreneurs, man. And they have worked hard and long. So I don’t think balance is the key. I think happiness is the key. I would say.

Rather than look for work-life balance. Look for life, life happiness. And it makes a lot of difference. Okay. Because as an entrepreneur, sometimes you gotta put in the big yards and you get really unbalanced. I think you’ve got to remember to bring it back a little bit and rest up and then go with heart again. That’s how we work best.

Miko Santos: And you say you have to have a passion for your business.

Llyod Ross : Of course. I think Steve Jobs said it best when he said, look, the only way to do great work is to love what you do truly. And I believe that I love what I do. I love marketing. I love helping a lot teaching and coaching, a lot of selling and I love investing and I just love reading. I love all parts of becoming a better person and I love personal challenges and overcoming and inspiring other people and helping. And they, you know, I love all that, like love podcasting with you. And this is great. Like. Helping other people is a very fulfilling thing. And that’s what you get to do as an entrepreneur.

Miko Santos : When you started your business, is that an online business? How has the idea came up?

Llyod Ross : Very good question. It was an accident. I wanted to have an online business, but I didn’t really know where to start. I had no skills in that area. Well, not a lot of skills in that area. And what happened was, my oldest sister.

Her physiotherapist had closed down his physiotherapist practice and he was marketing these health products online. And he suggested to my sister that she take a look at it as a customer. She did, she told my wife and me about these products. We started on them, very skeptically. I must add. And, I lost 14 kilos of body fat in 59 or 50 days with no exercise. And. Once that happened. I thought, Whoa. That’s interesting. Just looked at my photos and thought that is unbelievable. I didn’t even run or anything. I did. It’s all about diet. And I thought this is what a great product system, what a great system. And my sister said to me, look, if you help other people with it, you can earn extra income.

And I thought that’s me. I’m open to this. What else? How do I do this? And I remember helping a few people at the beginning, just on my phone. Just sharing some links and they got started and we got paid $700 once in one week. And I said to my wife, we have to explore this. This is our secondary or third income stream we can develop.
And we went to an event, learn some stuff and, and then went from one failure to another until we figured it out. And then now we’re just, you know, our highest week today from that business, probably if it is 12,000 in a week, profit 600 is later, you know? So. Yeah.

Miko Santos : So, so you’re saying that if you have an idea, just go for it.

Llyod Ross : Yeah. Like I think the most important thing is that like for us, we realized the product worked. And so immediately I knew that, well, if you have a really effective product for a problem that most people have, which is, you know, carrying too much body fat then I knew straight away that there was a market for it, for sure. That it worked for me. And if it worked for me, it would probably work for others like me and I knew other people like me. So I knew some customers and I, once we’d been paid that amount of money, it was such a larger amount than what I expected. That it actually shocked me enough to interaction. I thought, well, I’d do that again.

I’m going to get 700 hours a week. That’s the $30,000 pay rise. I’m, I’m interested in that. So before we went all in, we kind of knew the product worked, had helped other people that work for them. And we got paid for it. So there was a lot of certainty around those things before we decided that we’re going to spend our spare time building the business up to six figures and beyond.

Miko Santos : That’s great. So do you have any final advice? Anything else you want to share with our audience in getting their ideas to reality?

Llyod Ross: Yeah. Look, I think the hardest part is launching, right? You’ve got a launch and. If you don’t have a social media following and organic social media following, or a brand online across those platforms I spoke about earlier.

Then you’ve got to do that. You’ve got to post, you’ve got to do Facebook live. You’ve got to get out there and do that. And I know it’s scary. But you just gotta start and B you gotta be bad enough for long enough to get good enough and you have to be good with that. Like you have to be okay with sucking at things. And again, if you don’t have a product in your fit and you’ve, you’ve been stuck there on your product, just go to ClickBank and get an affiliate product or go and join a network marketing business and get a physical network marketing product. And just start because it may not be the thing you end within 20 years time, but you do need to develop the skills.

Of launching and running a business. And if, if the product things getting in the way, go borrow someone else’s. And if the audience that you don’t have an audience, go build one, but there are the things you need. You need a product and you need eyeballs on it, you know, and then just go and make a mess and you get a mentor, you figure it out.

Miko Santos : Thank you for that. So for our audience and listener and watching on, on Facebook and YouTube as well, if, if they want to contact you and want to have a chat with you, how they can connect with you,

Llyod Ross : Well, the best way to get in touch with me is Instagram. All the links will be on the show notes.

Miko Santos : Thank you for your time on our bootstrap podcast under AusPod syndicate, and also thank you to my sponsor. It’s kangaroofern media lab. Pty LTD. So if you need to launch your own podcast or you want to manage your podcast, you can book

Thank you so much. See you next time for another episode. See ya. Bye. Thank you for listening and watching

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