Please enjoy this transcript of my interview with Daniel Gefen (@danielgefen) went from jumping on classroom tables and getting detention for wanting attention to impacting millions of people in his underwear. He went from being completely invisible with no online following to growing his top-rated podcast to over 250,000 downloads, interviewing billionaires and world-class leaders, and becoming an international bestselling author in less than 2 years.
After being pitched hundreds of times by lazy PR agencies he launched Gefen Media Group – one of the first podcast booking agencies and helped influential authors sell hundreds of thousands of books by getting them on top-rated podcasts. Seeing a gap in the market for people who couldn’t afford to hire a booking agency, he launched Podbooker – a platform for guests and hosts to easily connect. Daniel lives in Israel with his wife of 13 years and 5 little rascals.
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Miko Santos : Daniel Gefen went from jumping in a class table and getting a detention for wanting attention, impacting millions of people in his underwear, he went from being completely invisible with no online following to growing his top-rated podcasts. Can I pick your brain to over 250,000 downloads Interviewing billionaires and work as leaders around and the top 100 business podcast in iTunes and becoming an international best-selling author of the self help attic in less than two years after being pitch.
Hundreds of times by Lazy PR agency, He launched Gefen media group, one of the first podcasts booking agency and help influential authors sell hundreds of thousands of books by getting them on top-rated podcasts. Seeing the gap in the market for people who couldn’t afford to hire a booking agency, He launched podbooker.com, a platform for guests and hosts to easily connect.
Let’s start with a quote on, your website,this is what you said on your website. My mission is to help people discover their voice and share their message.
with the world, what do you mean about that?
Daniel Gefen: Well, I think everybody, has a specific message that they’re here to do on this planet and my goal is to help them to deliver that message. And right now I feel like the most powerful medium. To spread a message is with the voice, with the power of audio. it used to be that the written word was the most powerful, right. And then, you know, TV came about and it was very visual. but now I feel like we’re in an era where audio is, is tape has taken over. And the reason why that is, is, you know, for those that are listening to this right now on the podcast, most likely you are.
You know, doing the dishes or going grocery shopping or going, you know, taking your dog for a walk or maybe you’re driving your car, might be on a train, but you’re doing something right. whereas when you’re reading a book or watching a YouTube video, you can’t do that while you’re going for a run or, you know, doing anything for that matter. You need to get full focus, on that. on that medium. And that’s why I believe that audio has taken off. And why now there’s, you know, hundreds of millions of people around the world listening to podcasts, and that number is growing every day.
MIko Santos: Let’s go back to your younger years. So it’s saying you’ve been, you’ve been jumping to the classroom table, getting detention for wanting attention. So how this situation happened during a younger year become one of the best selling authors and also at top rated podcasts. How does it happen?
Daniel Gefen: it’s a, it’s a journey. It’s a, you know, it’s a lot of, a lot of work and a lot of, Good luck. I think, good timing. there is, you know, people say there’s no such thing as luck. well, it depends on how you define luck, right? that, one of the best quotes I’ve heard is the harder you work, the luckier you get, you have to do the work. Otherwise, you know, you don’t get, you don’t get lucky if you’re not out there trying, the more you try, the more you’re going to find yourself in, in lucky situations. But luck definitely has, you know, it plays a part and you could define luck, in different ways. for me, luck is, is really God-given.
Here we, we, we call it masal, and you know, God set up a world. That’s purpose-driven. It’s there for a reason. Then we’re here for a reason. Everyone’s here for a reason. So as long as we’re doing our work, we’re doing the best that we can do while we’re here. Then, usually good things, you know, will happen. Especially if you’re, you know, at the right place at the right time. So for me, I went from sort of really struggling to figure things out and then worked very hard on, on myself. That’s number one, working on yourself to feel good about yourself and to have a strong belief in yourself and your belief in how the world works right. And getting an eye, good idea of human nature and how people work and, and what people really want. And the more that, I worked on that, the luck kind of played its role.
And, and I got on a phone call about four years ago with someone who said, I’d love to have you on my podcast. And I didn’t know what a podcast was four years ago. I said, what’s a podcast, you know, And from there, I went on his podcast as a guest and fell in love with the microphone and thought this was incredible. Wow. You know, I’ve got to, I got to do more of this. This is so much fun. And, and, I asked him how many people were listening to the podcast.
And I expected him to say maybe 20, 30 people. And he said over a thousand people, and I almost fell off my chair. I thought, Whoa, that’s a lot of people listening to me. Where are these people? And he said, well, they’re all over the world. They started listening to all these different countries and that’s when I realized the power, of audio, which you know, which is podcasting.
And I decided I need to, you know, get more into the podcast space and invest my time and effort, into podcasting. So I started my own podcast, two weeks after, called can I pick your brain? And I did not know anything about podcasting. I didn’t know how to do it. I didn’t know how to set it up. I didn’t know how to, you know, even getting guests.
I didn’t know how to get guests for my show. I wanted to get big guests, but I didn’t know how to do that. And I didn’t know how to get people to follow my show. How do I get them to listen to the podcast? This was the problem. and so I had this. Aha moment when I realized, well, instead of figuring this out myself, why don’t I leverage other people’s audiences?
So there are many podcasters out there already with audiences. I’ll just go be a guest on their show and then hopefully they’ll come and listen to my podcast. So that’s what I did. And that’s how I essentially, in a very short period of time, grew it to over 250,000 downloads. In less than two years, ended up interviewing, you know, some really big guests, billionaires, and fortune 500 CEOs, and New York Times bestselling authors.
And then I wrote a book myself and, and that became a number one bestseller on Amazon. And this was all just getting on podcasts. And I realized that this was an undervalued, attention. This was undervalued attention because it was, it’s a market that. People still don’t, fully, you know, they it’s underestimated. There are hundreds of millions of people that are listening to podcasts today and it’s free to get on podcasts. It doesn’t cost any money to be on podcasts. so. That’s the first part of the story.
The second part of the story is that I started getting bombarded with pitches from PR agencies and book publicists and people trying to get on my podcast or trying to get their clients on my podcast as guests. And the problem was is that they didn’t have a relationship with me and they didn’t. You know, positioned themselves in the right way. They, they sounded boring. They sounded like everybody else. And so I just kept saying no to all of these pitches and I would get dozens of these a day. And then after a couple of months, I woke up one morning.
a light bulb went off in my head and I said, hold on a second.
I have a top-rated podcast. I’m friends with top-rated hosts. So I’ve got the relationships already. I understand the podcasting space. I’ve been a guest on over 60 podcasts. I’ve had over 150 high profile guests on my show. So I know what a great guest should sound like and how positioned them and present them in the right way. So that hosts want them on their show. So why don’t I start a podcast booking agency and that’s how my booking agency Gefen media group was born. And we ended up getting a lot of clients booked on the top podcasts. And we still do that today. It’s been now three and a half years, but then a year ago I had an idea that there’s a lot of people that can’t afford an agency.
They can’t afford thousands of dollars to get on the top podcasts. And on the flip side, there are over 1.5 million podcasts now, and only the top, you know, maybe 10% are getting guests. The rest of them, nobody knows about them. So they’re not getting, you know, they’re not pitching them. And so how do they find guests? So you have these two markets that are not being served. And that’s when I had the idea for pod booker.com. So podbooker.com is a platform where anyone can sign up. For free as a guest and they can reach out to hosts and get booked on podcasts from the platform you could search for any podcasts that you’re interested in. And as a host, you could set up a podcast profile and you can look for guests and you can invite guests to be on your show.
Miko Santos : Looks amazing. what is your advice to entrepreneurs? If they have an idea, just like you have an idea of a gap in the market, you launched podBooker. but a afraid to go ahead about the idea.
Daniel Gefen: So fear is a really, could be your best friend and it could be your worst enemy. The fear is there for a reason, it’s there to, to help us to survive, right? That we, if we didn’t have fear, we would probably die very quickly because we’d be jumping into fires and jumping off cliffs and doing all sorts of crazy things because we wouldn’t we’d have no fear.
So first thing is to recognize that fear is. Is a good thing, but it has to be, it has to be in its place and its time, and, and fair when it’s not the right time. And it’s not the right place. It must be told that this is not the time and the place. Right. So you have to. Learn to have a relationship with your fear and to communicate with fear, to say, you know, I understand this is, this is you.
You are warning me. You’re giving me a warning either, but this is okay. This is a place where I can feel safe and I can feel comfortable, even though it might be a bit scary. So for example, getting on a podcast might be scary at first, right? You’re going on a, on a show and people are listening to you and you may say something really stupid or, you know, whatever, but it’s okay because you know, that’s how we learn.
That’s how we grow. if a child. Was afraid to fall. It would never learn to walk. Right? So we all had to overcome fear in order to be a regular human beings, just a function of just the function in life. Just to be able to walk around and drive a car and driving a car at first, it’s very scary. I remember when I was driving the car with my, you know, my dad was freaking out, you know, I was freaking out. I was, you know, he was freaking out. We were both freaking out because any minute I thought we were going to smash into something, but. Today. Yeah, thank God. I’m able to drive around and it’s very useful. So, we have to learn to get past the fear in order to grow in order to you know, advance in life.
Miko Santos: Due to a pandemic, the podcasting arena space is getting, getting more notice. Some people say the power of podcasts, it can do a lot of things. For our business people or entrepreneurs, why do you think podcasting going to be helpful?
Daniel Gefen: A hundred percent, you know, podcasting is just a medium, right? That’s all it is. So, TV is a medium radio is a medium social media is a medium, you know, sending.
Sales letters back in the day. That’s what you did. You, you wrote out a, a letter and you would send it in the mail and that’s how you reached your potential clients, right? Then, you had, you know, newspapers and then magazines, and then you would put an ad in the newspapers and the magazines and radio, and then TV and social media came out and internet. And so the podcast is just another form of communication. And it’s just another way to communicate with your ideal clients, but it happens to be one of the most powerful. And the reason why is because people nowadays are second tired of being sold to an advertiser and being advertised to and market it too.
We don’t like to be interrupted when you’re scared, rolling on your Instagram feed or your Facebook feed, you know, you’re there because you want to. You know, either socialize with some, some of your network or you want to just, you know, chill out and, you know, take in some information or entertainment. You’re not interested in buying anything. So if an ad pops up, you can kind of just move it away. Right? When you, watching a YouTube video, you know, you don’t want to watch an ad. You want to get straight to your content. The ad is annoying. You have to skip it, get out of the way. And so in a generation where.
Advertising has become very unwanted. And this tasteful content is the key people want content. The proof of it is that people binge content to look at Netflix. For example, that’s a content machine that people binge, Facebook is a content machine that people will binge. Instagram is a content machine that people binge. So if you can create content that people will Consume and then by consuming that content, they create a connection with you on a personal level.
Well then they’re going to be way more likely to buy from you because we buy from people. We don’t buy from ads. We buy from the people who are behind the product. The people who have a mission who have a purpose who have a message who can help us, who have been where we’ve been before. If I can trust you because I relate to you, then I’m more likely to buy from you.
and right now, the best way to do that is by being a guest on podcasts, because that’s where the attention is right now. That’s where the attention is. There’s roughly an attention span of about eight seconds, which is one second, less than a goldfish. and on social media, it’s about three seconds.
So. There’s very little connection that you can make in three seconds with a human being. Very little, if any, whereas with podcasting. So the average podcast is around 45 minutes long. So that means you’ve got someone’s attention for on average 45 minutes. That’s a long time in today’s generation to be able to have somebody’s attention for that long is a gold mine.
Miko Santos: If you already have a podcast. How would you convert it? To convert an engagement listener into a fantastic follower.
Daniel Gefen: Yeah, it’s a good question. well, that’s all about telling good stories. Number one, because people love a good story. and, two is knowing your audience and. Delivering value, essentially, you know, trying to imagine what your audience wants to hear, what are they struggling with, and when you know what your audience is struggling with and you have the ability to help them in some way. that’s how they’re going to end up following you and, you know, wanting more of your content and, and, you know, buying into whatever it is that you’re, that you’re selling. If it could help them,
Miko Santos: Let’s talk about, Can I pick your brain podcast? Can you give us an overview of your podcasts and advice shared during a typical episode?
Daniel Gefen: Well, so can I pick your brain was my first podcast. that’s where I sort of interviewed some really big entrepreneur guests. Some of you probably heard of Robert Kiyosaki and Russell Brunson and, Noah Kagan, and all these other great guests. So that’s what the podcast is about. I’ve also launched a new podcast called to grow your show and grow your show is where I interview other podcast hosts who have millions of downloads and, pretty much, the goal is to help people who are either thinking of starting a podcast and wanting to learn how to.
Grow their audience, or if you’ve got an existing podcast, you know, you want to grow, grow to, to have, you know, a bigger audience and to be able to also monetize your podcast, you know, how do you make money out of, out of, you know, having a podcast? so. Yeah, I would highly recommend if anyone’s listening to this that is either has a podcast or thinking of having a podcast to subscribe to grow your show so they could find out, you know, how to grow and monetize their podcast.
Miko Santos: How is the podbooker.com I started?
Daniel Gefen: Yeah, as I mentioned, earliest support Podbooker.com came about because I realized. That there was a gap in the market where, it was hard for people to find podcasts, to pitch in order to get booked on their shows. And there are a big, there’s a big market of hosts podcast hosts that are looking for guests. And so that’s the goal of pod booker.com is really to it’s like a dating platform where they could essentially, you know, reach out to each other and get the book.
Miko Santos: What is the most critical skills for like an entrepreneur or a business owners to master in order to be successful in podcasting?
Daniel Gefen : Probably. I would say number one is a belief. Belief is number one, if you don’t believe in yourself, you’ll, you’ll never succeed, at anything, right. It starts with belief. Yeah. It’s everything starts with a belief. So if you’re, if you want to be better at anything. Focus first on believing that you can be better at that thing, work on believing in yourself and work on believing in whatever it is that you’re doing.
So for example, With podbooker, you know, I had to believe in the product before building the product. Right. I had a real belief that this is going to help people. if you’re selling something and you don’t believe in it, you’re not going to sell it. So first believe in yourself, second is believe in the product. And I would say the second skill set is to work on tenacity and consistency. So making sure that you, you know, every single day. Do a little bit more, a little bit more towards your goal, whatever your goal is, whether it’s writing a book, try to have some sort of consistent action that you’re doing every day.
It doesn’t have to be big. Some days you might write for an hour. Some days you might write for five minutes, but that five minute is really important because you’re, you’re keeping the consistency going. And the tenacity part is important because there’s a lot of things that will come your way. Whether it’s people or whether it’s situations and the way to get over those challenges is to not give up and to always push forward and think of ways around the situation. Those, I think are the main skills.
Miko Santos: Okay, thank you. Do we really need rates and reviews to be successful with podcasting?
Daniel Gefen : NO. So, reviews don’t actually help. With, getting more listeners. The only thing that really helps us two things, one is good content, and two is more subscribers people subscribing to your show. So when people subscribe to your show you get ranked higher on iTunes. If your content is good, people will subscribe. If your content is good, people will tell other people and they will subscribe. So that’s it. That is the whole secret to growing up.
Miko Santos : Do you have any final advice or anything else you want to share with our entreprenuers? start up business owner who is watching and listening right now to our show.
Daniel Gefen: Yeah. My final advice is get started. Stop thinking about it. Jump in make mistakes and, you know, break things along the way and have fun doing it. So,that’s, that’s what I would say. So sign up to podbooker.com. It’s free to join, and just get yourself booked on a bunch of podcasts. Don’t worry too much about how you sound and how it’s going to come across. Just, just start doing it. There’s a lot of podcasts out there and now is the time it’s the, the right time to be getting on shows, especially because, as the market becomes saturated, it’s going to get expensive. right now it’s free. So take advantage of it while you still can.
Miko Santos: Any parting words before we wrap up the podcast ?
Daniel Gefen : Thank you so much for having me on the show me. Miko I really appreciate it?
Miko Santos: Thank you so much, Daniel, so far listeners and audience as well. All the links will be on the show notes so you can check.
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