29 : Anna Osherov | Why having a clarity in your business is a must

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In this episode, Holistic Business Hub Founder Anna Osherov discusses the importance to have clarity around your product and service and who is your ideal customer.

She also explained to us her vision to help and support others to grow and empower them to be social impact entrepreneurs.

In this episode, we discuss these topics with Anna Osherov;

[6:05] What is her vision in her life?

[10:17] How to become an industry influencer?

[14:12] How to build a strong reputation?

[18:54] Why having clarity in your business is a must

About the Guest

Anna Osherov is an event marketing expert working with visionary leaders to create industry influencers through the power of live events. Armed with a Bachelor of Communication from Monash University, expertise in event marketing, and 14 years of experience working directly with business owners.

Anna Osherov is the CEO and founder of the Holistic Business Hub, Flintt and annaosherov.com, She is an event-marketing expert teaching the art of Eventology: Master Events For Your Brand and Business Growth. Known for the authority on building your personal brand and business with events, she is regularly invited to share her knowledge on business podcasts and was nominated for the 2019 Telstra Business Award.

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Entrepreneurs and business leaders are regularly featured to enable meaningful connections and conversations while keeping the world updated on the latest business trends and events in Australia.

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(Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

VO  0:00 

Kangaroofern production?

Anna Osherov  0:02 

 Yeah, yeah. So you need to have clarity around your product and service, you need to have clarity around who is your ideal customer, and look, a lot of the time we feel or we know that our product or service can solve a problem for anyone, right? You know, anybody might be able to use a pen, but not everybody might want to buy a pen from me. And not everybody is going to go down the same channels to purchase this particular pen. So when you really need to think about who can I be of greatest value to who could my products be of greatest value to and then really connect with those people because if we’re thinking about marketing and building our business, even though we might be able to solve a problem for everybody, it’s really hard to market to everybody. The tribe podcast show is a production of

VO  0:52 

kangaroo food Media Lab, which is all about supporting you to start and build a thriving business tribe podcast on Auspod syndicate.

Miko Santos  1:03 

Anna Osherov wrote his event marketing expert working with visionary leaders to create industry influencer to the power of live events armed with a Bachelor of communication from Monash University, expertise in event marketing, and 14 years of experience working directly with business owners, and she is the CEO and founder of holistic business hub.

VO  1:29 

Welcome, everybody to this week’s episode. We really appreciate you joining us. This podcast really shows us how we can all learn, live and thrive off of each other. By sharing your knowledge through our conversations, we will impart some knowledge will learning how to progress even further. Here is your host.

Miko Santos  1:52 

Please welcome to the tribe podcast under AusPod syndicate. Anna, thank you. How are you today?

Anna Osherov  2:00 

I’m good. Thank you. Thanks for having me here.

Miko Santos  2:03 

Thank you for your time. So can you tell us a little bit about you how you started your business? I know you as you will. You were born? You’re born in Ukraine. And after eight years, your parents went to Australia? Can you tell us more about Yeah,

Anna Osherov  2:25 

Definitely. So we left the former USSR, which is now Ukraine on a humanitarian refugee visa as Jewish migrants actually emigrated to Australia via a long immigration process through Italy and then arrived in Australia with my mum and my dad after about seven months. And we landed here with no English language skills whatsoever. So I grew up in Australia, primarily, I went to primary school high school, and then completed a Bachelor of Communications at university and being born overseas and having my family come over meant that was the first person in my family to learn how to speak English. And I became the translator for my whole family essentially becoming the communicator. And I think that’s partly why I decided to complete a Bachelor of Communications at university, because learning how to communicate in between two individuals is really a gift that we have in marketing, right. So understanding what one person is trying to say to the other. And vice versa is really the core of communications and the core of marketing, being able to understand what the customer wants, and the seller is selling is really the crux of it all. So I guess the idea or the training for marketing and communications began really early when my grandma used to take me to the shop with her and say, and I can you please ask this person that I would like this type of meat, or this type of bread, or this type of dessert, and I was the person that would stand in the middle and communicate between them. So I think that’s where it all began.

Miko Santos  4:08 

So being a migrant as well, coming to Australia, how hard is that, to study and get a job while you’re starting it?

Anna Osherov  4:20 

That’s a good question. For me, I came here quite early, so I was nine years old. So I really did go through the process of primary school and high school. But what I realized looking back is that my initial desire was just to fit in to integrate, to assimilate, to make friends to you know, become popular, etc. And so I found that through high school and through primary school, my immediate goals weren’t in academics, my immediate goals were in really making friends building relationships, building a network, and I guess it wasn’t until right at the very end when I hit two year 12 that I realized that I really need to Do something about getting into university. And I was very lucky to get into the number one cause that I applied for which happened to be Bachelor of communications. And it was a double awards program. Actually, it was a Bachelor of comms and a diploma in it, I was very lucky, it was a first year that they’d run this particular course at Monash University. And so I think the Enter score is lower than it is now for a communications degree. And so I was very lucky to get enough points at the end of year 12, to get into a Bachelor of comms and sort of go through university and, and that with a degree in Polo on the top needed experiences or top needed professions in the world today.

Miko Santos  5:47 

So on your website, we just want to read this for you and love to explain why you said this. I want to inspire people, I want you to see me in teams with your support, I can succeed. Can you elaborate that way you say

Anna Osherov  6:05 

yeah, that’s very much a personal vision for myself. It’s what helps me get out of bed in the morning, it’s what spurred me on to really get myself out there to be visible to create content, to share value, to support my students to really engage people, and be able to empower and inspire them to be the best possible person that they can be. And we know that the best way to inspire someone is to lead by example. And so I really look at my life and think about how can I support the growth and others not just through the professional, so marketing, communications content, but also around sharing my journey from a fitness perspective, or sharing some books, podcasts, blogs that might be of the value of interest, really being able to, I guess, empower others and communicate on a very authentic level. So if I’m, if I’m experiencing insecurity, imposter syndrome, mental guess thoughts that get in the way of my being able to get to where I want to be, I will share those thoughts and ideas, I’ll share some of the techniques and skills that I’ve learned to get what you get through that. Because I really do feel a lot more motivated, when I’m able to support those that support others. So that together we can make a better, bigger difference.

Miko Santos  7:37 

So you are an event expert, and as well a marketing expert. So right now, you know what’s happening. There’s a pandemic, there’s a lockdown, how hard for you, to do your work as an event, especially. So how would you? Is there a challenge to you right now, on your business? Because most of them now is online? webinar online seminar. So how do you update this?

Anna Osherov  8:09  

Yeah, look through as COVID started, I did have the holistic business hub, which was a boutique business event venue, an in-person event, but my role in that space was to teach people how to market and build their brand using events as a channel. And so when I had to close the venue, I just made a complete shift to online events, the possibility and opportunity that technology provides for us globalization, the possibility of being able to connect with a wider audience has not changed, it’s actually opened up the world to a much broader audience. And so if we’re thinking about event marketing, so how can we really build out a personal brand or business brand? How can we reach a wider audience? How can we shift from one-to-one to one too many perspectives, all of the strategies that we need to implement for an in-person event are the same as what we need to implement for an online event. It’s just around really learning how to use the technology that has been developed that has increased, you know, we’ve actually grown we had a five-year leap in the adoption of digital technology for businesses and individuals in eight weeks. So when COVID first started, and we all had to fumble to learn how to communicate with each other digitally, that digital adoption, leaked for fighting fire for five years in just eight weeks. And so really, my business just had to shift a little bit and think about how can we now utilize the same principles of an in-person, workshop, seminar, webinar, or online to shift to an online event and so I just really shifted positioning on that and started to support people who are looking to build grow their business through online events.

Miko Santos  10:02 

But I’m just very curious about you saying, taking visionary leaders from unknown to industry influencers to the power of live events how, how you do that.

Anna Osherov  10:17 

So it’s really a journey that influenced that industry. influencer really is a journey. So we all start in a space of unknown. So we have some form of an idea, we want to make a difference within our industry, we have our expertise, we have our solid knowledge, we have a solid understanding of our products and our services. And now we want to start to go from that, you know, word of mouth, one to one consultancy model or sales model too, you know, really being able to influence that industry, by engaging multiple people by being able to share our content more extensively by being able to be more visible. And so it really becomes a journey where we all start within the space of the unknown, where nobody really has heard of us, we just have a really solid understanding of who we are and what we do, then we go into a testing phase. So we start to test our content, test material, test our audience, and really be able to understand how we can engage and implement an event. So a webinar or seminar, a program or workshop, how can we start to take the knowledge that we have, and put it into a program of some description that’s going to be able to reach a wider audience. And so we sit in the testing phase, once we’ve been able to identify what is the best content for us to share? Who is the best audience for us to work with? What types of products and services resonate with that audience? Then we start to experiment with things like when is the best time? What is the best length of time for us to deliver our content? Where do we want to deliver our content? Do we do Australia do we start to expand globally. And once we’ve experimented, and we really have a solid understanding of who we are, what we do, who we work with what services or products we offer them, then we go into a recognized stage. And when we’re sitting within recognize what that really means is that your ideal audience and you’ve got a warm market and they know who you are. So it starts to, I guess, reduce the amount of hustle that we need to implement into becoming more of that influencer. And then the next step from that is to influence your industry. And so some of the greatest industry influence might bring a burn a brown or Tony Robbins. But we’ve got really great influences within say Melbourne, somebody who like like, say, Natasha Denman, who’s been running the ultimate 48-hour author, the majority of you know, Melbourne, business owners would have an idea, especially in the service industry, we’ll have an idea of who she is. And if we look at the model, that each of these industry influences takes, it is very much that model of, you know, using email marketing, using social media using events, to be able to build and sell their product. And their products are then either, you know, your motivation, and motivational speeches like that might be from Tony Robbins, or programs that lead into real personal development, or, you know, shows as Oprah Winfrey will do, he will, you know, talk to many people on mass and then become an influencer, for others. So it’s really around being able to utilize that positioning of using events or an event marketing strategy implemented into our business models, to start to build our influence in the niche that we have chosen for ourselves.

Miko Santos  13:36 

Thank you for that. So for our listeners, also, our audience who is trying to start their own entrepreneurial journey, or starting to have a kick up their business, being a business owner. The first thing is how you build your strong online reputation so that it will go on to a good brand. So how would you build it as a new owner, as a new business owner, how to build a strong reputation?

Anna Osherov  14:12 

So we start with the fundamentals, right? If we think about any form of marketing, fundamental, we really need to understand our product service. So really being able to articulate what problem it solves, who it solves that problem for being able to very clearly identify what you’re selling. So what is that product or service that you’re selling, then being able to identify who is your ideal customer, understand who they are, where they spend their time, how to communicate with them, and really doing all of that ground research to have some idea of where we want to go because, until such time that we have those foundations, it’s really difficult to start to build and grow. And so once we’ve identified our products and services that we are selling where there are problems they solve or identified customers, we’ve really been able to understand where that customer is and what it is that they want, where they can then create content that’s going to be of value to our customer. And it’s about our product and service and about the problems than they solve. So you really start to become that translator, that communicator, just like I was my grandma was her problem was that she was not able to communicate the type of saying deli meat that she wanted to the person who was behind the counter because she wasn’t able to speak the language. So for her, she had to have clarity of what she wanted, she had to be able to explain it to me, I had to understand her and then be able to tell the person who’s selling it, what it is that she wants, the person who’s selling it had to have the product. So essentially, I was solving my grandma’s problem because she was not able to communicate. But the shopper system was also solving a problem because he had the product. So it’s really around them being able to understand how can we use the right type of communication that’s going to bring value to our ideal customer, solving their problems and essentially leading them down the best possible path in order to engage with your product and service and solve their own problem through using utilizing your products or services.

Miko Santos  16:19 

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You see you have to have you have to have a passion and you need to research your product or your business so that they can resolve whatever the problem is.

Anna Osherov  18:54 

Yeah, yeah. So you need to have clarity around your product and service, you need to have clarity around who is your ideal customer, and look, a lot of the time we feel or we know that our product or service can solve a problem for anyone, right? You know, anybody might be able to use a pen, but not everybody might want to buy a pen from me. And not everybody is going to go down the same channels to purchase this particular pen. So when you really need to think about who can I be of greatest value to who could my products be of greatest value to and then really connect with those people. Because if we’re thinking about marketing and building our business, even though we might be able to solve a problem for everybody, it’s really hard to market to everybody. You know, if we can’t really take on the spray and pray approach and market to everybody. So we really need to understand who do we want to work with who’s going to bring us joy as our customers because it’s going to be a two-way street and there’s going to be an exchange of value. You know, that person is giving you money, you’re giving them value. You and you need to connect on a level that’s going to be pleasant for both of you, in order for you to successfully continue to build and grow business because if you’re not enjoying your customers and they’re enjoying your service, it’s going to go downhill very, very quickly.

Miko Santos  20:15 

You need to know your customer Avatar and reaching them down. Is that right?

Anna Osherov  20:21 

Yeah, yeah. And really niching down into what makes you happy. Just think about who you personally like to work with.

Miko Santos  20:30 

Okay, thank you for that. So I know you’ve been successful doing your business and being a woman intrapreneurs Do you experienced challenges when you starting up? To be honest, I

Anna Osherov  20:43 

probably experienced more challenges as I’ve grown and opened, I guess, started new businesses. So I positioned myself as a consultant. So I work with multiple different individuals, organizations, teams, front programs as an event marketing, and marketing consultant. But we’ve recently formed a new company called Flint Flint with the WT Comdata. You. And the whole purpose of this project is to really support people to build their brand reputation revenue through automated marketing. It’s essentially a simple process that enables business owner entrepreneur or even a team leader or a C suite exec to utilize to fill out a single content form, which will then be repurposed to send out social media and email marketing instantly. And the whole purpose of this is to really support that personal brand, reputation, revenue, and make it simple for people who currently struggle with doing any form of social media and email marketing. And even though we know it’s really, really important, sometimes the idea of creating content can be overwhelming. So the whole purpose of Flint is to make it a really simple, single-step process in order to be able to push out your content across email and social media. But in setting up our startup, I’ve got a team together, we’ve got you to know, a team of four co-founders, and the developer, and every single other person on my team is male. And being in that space, I have definitely found it a bit more challenging as the CEO to be able to, you know, stand in my certainty in my power, to be the visionary within the company, but still be able to communicate in a way that I can listen to my team, and they can listen to me and not get stuck in you know, emotional roller coaster that can be business. And also, I found them when speaking to, you know, potential customers or even speaking to, for people within our network, I’ve literally have stopped in a co-working space. And I was there with my business partner and co-founder and a guy that we both knew stopped us. And the guy said to me, Anna, it was really good for us to have a chat. And I said, Oh, yeah, that would be great. And the guy said, just make sure that Paul’s paying you for that time. And I kind of looked at this guy and went, I’m not employed by Paul, he’s not my boss, he doesn’t pay me. And, you know, it was so confronting at that moment to realize that no matter what work you’ve done, and you know, I’m the highest shareholder within our company, because the whole company was my vision, my idea, and I brought the whole team together. And yet still, people will look at you when you’re standing next to your, you know, business partner and assume that that person is your boss. So that was a very confronting thought and idea. And I’ve been asked also, you know when I speak about our company, we’ve had interviews with potential partnerships and potential contracts contractors, and I’ve literally been asked, Is this your company? My bone? Yes. That’s why you and I are having this conversation. So it definitely does pose its challenges. And what’s interesting is I didn’t actually experience those challenges until such time that I stepped out from being a solopreneur to really building a startup and a team around myself.

Miko Santos  24:19 

Thank you so much. We’re opposite some, my team is all women. They’re very good. Most of them are mommies. So mom. In relation with that, what is your advice to mommies or mom who is thinking to get started their own business? I know it’s very challenging as a woman intrapreneurs right now this thing, we’re trying to do a gap between the and the gender gap. So what is your advice for them to do need to start up or make

Anna Osherov  24:59 

the I’m not the best person to give advice to mums, because I’m not a mum. But from the perspective of, you know, women starting in business, I think it’s just around being very honest, like, allowing yourself to get out of your own way. Women have a tendency of getting in their way a lot more than men do. There have been studies showing that when a man looks at a job description, and things are, I can do about 50% of this, I should definitely apply for this job. And if a woman looks at a description, and she thinks, oh, I can only do about 90% of this work, I’m probably not good enough. And there’s been studies that have, you know, showing this. And so I think as, as women, we tend to get in our way, we face imposter syndrome, we think that we’re not good enough. And then it’s if we’re starting from that standpoint, it makes it really difficult to then stand in our own confidence in our own certainty. And I think the other part is that, in my experience, business never grows as quickly as we think it will. There are very few, there are very few entrepreneurs that I have met who, you know, successfully built and grew their business within a year. Most people I have met, especially if you’re starting out and they you don’t have a clarity of pathway, so you haven’t seen somebody go before you and show you the way to do it. So if you’re not in a trade, or if you’re not, you know, within hairdressing or you’re not a plumber, or you don’t have that clarity, I’ve found that it takes you to know, at least two to three years to start to build a foundation where you have clarity over your product and your service, you have clarity over your pricing, you’ve got an understanding of a business model that’s going to work for you. And I think that just being very aware that it’s going to take time and allowing yourself to take that time is really important.

Miko Santos  27:10 

Do you agree to have a mentor when you’re starting out your business?

Anna Osherov  27:15 

Yeah, I 100% agree with having a mentor when we’re starting a business. My experiences with mentors have both been positive and negative. So it’s really in searching for that person, we really need to make sure that I know for me it’s really listening to your gut instinct about that person. See if you can invest in some, I guess lower-end products with that mentor, or maybe start off on like a very short mentoring program, and just still have clarity over your own vision and your own ideas. And people don’t necessarily understand your passion. So I have another side business, which is a food delivery business, it is a contracting business, it’s almost a passive income for me, but the revenue within that business is probably was higher for a long time than what the revenue was in my like consultancy, business. And so in working with business mentors, a lot of the time, their recommendation would be to build up the passive business because that has the opportunity to, in the short term, bring in more revenue and yet the building that would take me away from what’s actually important to me, you know, the passion, the vision and what I actually enjoy doing. So just making sure that if we are investing in a mentor which can be done through a one on one, that business, business coach, or it can be through, you know, participating and working or working with or engaging in other organizations, I worked with the speaker’s Institute and led the speaker’s tribe and, you know, Sam Cawthorne has been a great mentor for me when it comes to both being able to communicate as a speaker and also watching how business grows. And you can find mentors everywhere my gym, I was with ultimate fitness and when I first quit my job, I actually been in had a one on one meeting with our, with the guy that started the gym, Andy Anderson, who also had studied life coaching and we had a really great one on one session and he was actually a catalyst for me to quit my job and start working for myself. I was on a business retreat and was we were out one night I was talking about starting a business and he said to me, Anna, I’m not recommending this, but if you really want to start your own business, quit your job because it’ll get your hustle on. And when he said this, we were on a retreat in Bali. I thought she’s not going to do that. And literally, I returned from our trip to Bali. And within two weeks, I’d quit my job and went off and started consulting. And I haven’t looked back since. And I went to see Andy give me some of that initial mentoring and coaching into how can I go and start my business? What do I enjoy doing? What don’t I enjoy doing? So mentors can be found in all different areas of our lives? And yeah, I definitely agree with being able to source and find somebody that’s going to help you grow and push through those barriers and be accountable to you so much.

Miko Santos  30:37 

So let’s go back to the issue with the imposter syndrome. Oh, would you when, when your experience, how would you resolve this or take over or because we know some of us, we know our profession, we know our expertise. But when the imposter syndrome kicks in, something happens. How would you overcome that? As a business owner and interviewer?

Anna Osherov  31:10 

Yeah, that’s a good question. I find that thing that helps for me personally, is to sometimes stop, walk away, take a breath, and come back to it. So especially when we, let’s just say we need to write our bio out or we need to apply for a particular contract, or we want to launch into a different market, I find that in that time, we start to have to either create or write or speak about our own accolades or achievements. And I think in that space, one thing is I find is to write down the facts, just the facts, what is truth? And then if you were starting to feel uncomfortable about that, walk away and come back, and ask somebody else to give you your own business biobanks. Ask people, what is it that you think of me? What is it that I have done, that you think would make me the best sort of candidate for this, or the best person to share my content, and then listen to what that person is saying? And actively listen, rather than listening with a preconceived idea of why it is that they are wrong. Other things that really help are, you know, the simple things like exercise, helps go for a walk, and do some breathing exercises, increase your energy levels, go and speak to somebody who is a really great advocate for you. Go and think about some of the successes rather than the failures that you’ve had. And if you think about the failures, think about well, what have those failure failures provided me that I am now able to implement back into my business, how have I grown from the failures that I’ve experienced? You know, I think a lot of people and it is more women do experience that imposter syndrome. But really, on the one side, it’s I feel like an imposter. And on the other side is, I’m actually going to succeed or make a difference. Yeah. So think about your why. For me, when when you ask me, you know, I want to inspire people, like, I can’t inspire people, when I’m feeling imposter syndrome. I can’t inspire people when I’m feeling self-conscious. So go back to your why and what is it that you want to achieve and why you’re working towards that, and then that from that space, and if you’re having a bad day, then just let yourself have a bad day. Just go on Huawei for a little bit. If you’ve got that opportunity, go and do that. Allow yourself to be sad for a day and then get up the next day and do all the things that you know, make you feel better. Whether that is you know, pampering yourself, whether that is doing exercise, whether that is you know, speaking to some really cool people or going to a networking event, whatever is going to work for you, I don’t know, put on makeup, put on beautiful clothes, whatever it is that’s going to work for you just go and do that and then start the next day and just move forward.

Miko Santos  34:15 

Thank you so much for that advice. So who are the three people who have been saying, the most influential to you? That’s a very good question.

Anna Osherov  34:26 

Interestingly enough, they’re all probably men, but from a business perspective. So the first person to ever hire me into a marketing agency, who is also the first person I started a business with, and that’s Paul moon. So we he was the first person to hire me as an account manager and a business development person into a marketing agency and he gave me a lot of leeway and responsibility and we worked really well together. And then we started a business together and I lost it all of six months before he kicked me out because I just wasn’t sure For, but it was a real wake up call for the possibility of running my own business and being able to, you know, take a step into the direction of putting a value on your own services and products, setting up a business, you know, even from an admin perspective, so that was the first person to kind of made me see what was possible. And then I went to contracting for Steve for and Steve was the first person who helped me realize how much I enjoy facilitating and training. So Steve used to teach marketing to tradies for business costs. And one point he asked me to come in and co-facilitate, and then he just goes, you facilitate this, and it made me realize that I’m actually very good at training and facilitating and really helping people to learn and grow. So that was a really big shift. And the other person is Sam Cawthorne, who runs the speaker’s Institute and the speaker’s tribe. And, you know, he was another person who really saw something in me and they allowed me to go and be a leader and really learn how to support people and be able to share value in watching and supporting the speaker’s Institute grow from you know, a company that was only Australian to a global organization, it’s now growing both into the corporate and into the beta. Sea space has been really, really inspiring. So I really love watching businesses grow and evolve. And really just having somebody who will give you the confidence in yourself that you need in order to be able to grow that sort of business perspective. Otherwise, my mom is probably one of my biggest teachers and confidence. And that’s taken a really long time to build a beautiful relationship. And she has been a really great support, and her brain works very differently to mine. So it’s always good to have a conversation with my mum, and she can always help me to reposition my thinking in the best possible way.

Miko Santos  37:13 

I just said, there’s a quote said mums know best. Yeah. Before we wrap up the podcast if you could give advice to your 16 years old self, what would it be?

Anna Osherov  37:30 

I can give advice to my 16-year-old self. Yep. But even advice to my 16-year-old self, it would be to stop focusing on the things that you don’t like about yourself and just learn to enjoy life, because I feel like we miss out on so much joy in our lives when we focus on I don’t like how I look, I don’t like how I sound. I don’t like how I feel around these people I don’t fit in if we can let go of all of those insecurities in our minds, then we’re able to really enjoy the joy that life can bring for us. So my advice to my 16-year-old self would be to just let go of all of those negative voices and really learn to enjoy the experiences that life provides for you.

Miko Santos  38:23 

All right, thank you so much for that. So how can our audience who’s watching on YouTube and Facebook, and Vimeo connect with you online.

Anna Osherov  38:34 

The first thing to do is just go to Annaosherov.com, or just Google my full name and whatever comes up for you, whether that’s LinkedIn, whether that’s my website, whether that’s Facebook, just jump on and connect.

Miko Santos  38:47 

Alright, thank you so much. Thank you so much for your time. And if you have any other questions, so all the links will be on the podcast show notes. And Anna is happy to connect with you. Thank you so much. And see you to another episode of Tribe podcasts under Auspod syndicate. Thank you. Thank you for listening and watching make sure to visit our website at Australia podcast syndicate. Be sure to subscribe, so you will be notified when a new episode is posted in Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or Facebook. If you found value in this show, rate and review this podcast and share it with your friends.

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